Curse

Coast · Jun 22, 2009, 05:35 PM // 17:35

discord kills stuff instantly....

Zahr Dalsk · Jun 22, 2009, 06:33 PM // 18:33

I love threads like this, because all the really shitty players are revealed.

(Hint: they're the ones complaining that things are too hard or their build is ruined, when in fact it is not the case.)

Boneyard Spleeneater · Jun 22, 2009, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Hmm, interesting discussion.

To respond to some general points, I am not saying that HM is too hard, I am saying it is impossible. By impossible I don't mean it can't be played, I mean certain things can't be done. If any of you out there are capable of interrupting a .375 second spell after they have started casting, then you are either uber-men, or cheaters. At some point, things cease to be challenging, and become boring (Rrangars comes to mind).

My thought was simply that Mesmers (which I often play, since it was my first toon) are supposed to be interrupter and hexers. In HM, they became CoP spikers, with the occasional interrupt available for long casting spells (Eles, Necros, and some Rit spells). Well now, Spirits will pop up and do whatever they do. Yes, I can always equip unnatural signet, but the point is that in buffing the rit, (and nerfing CoP), the Mes has essentially been sent to the ghetto of really effective AP caller.

I don't imagine that this update will ruin my play much, other than the fact that I only got a couple of weekends with my cool Keg farm before they nerfed it. My point in starting this was simply that in appealing to the people who wanted stronger rits, they radically changed a whole group of skills. This will have more radical consequences than they may have expected.

Axel Zinfandel · Jun 23, 2009, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Signet of binding! Use it to your advantage and make them yours!

Sjeng · Jun 23, 2009, 11:20 AM // 11:20

I doubt it'll be that much harder. I'm happy I'm done vanquishing NF and factions though

shoyon456 · Jun 23, 2009, 11:28 AM // 11:28

Doubt cast time will change it much, but I think "we will return" will prove to be one hell of a bi*ch in the desolation.

I too am glad i finished vq'ing long ago

tasha · Jun 23, 2009, 11:51 AM // 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boneyard Spleeneater

By impossible I don't mean it can't be played, I mean certain things can't be done. If any of you out there are capable of interrupting a .375 second spell after they have started casting, then you are either uber-men, or cheaters. At some point, things cease to be challenging, and become boring (Rrangars comes to mind).

Daze, Arcane Conundrum, Frustration, Migraine say hi. That 0.375 "impossible" spell becomes a 0.5 or 0.75 cast and quite easily interrupted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boneyard Spleeneater

My thought was simply that Mesmers (which I often play, since it was my first toon) are supposed to be interrupter and hexers. In HM, they became CoP spikers, with the occasional interrupt available for long casting spells (Eles, Necros, and some Rit spells). Well now, Spirits will pop up and do whatever they do. Yes, I can always equip unnatural signet, but the point is that in buffing the rit, (and nerfing CoP), the Mes has essentially been sent to the ghetto of really effective AP caller.

Mesmers are interrupters. As are other professions eg. Rangers. Mesmers also have a load of other skills NOT focussed on interrupting, but in screwing over whatever you're facing or making it easier for your team to capitalise on an impaired foe. See above skills as an example. For direct damage, look elsewhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boneyard Spleeneater

I don't imagine that this update will ruin my play much, other than the fact that I only got a couple of weekends with my cool Keg farm before they nerfed it. My point in starting this was simply that in appealing to the people who wanted stronger rits, they radically changed a whole group of skills. This will have more radical consequences than they may have expected.

Adapt and overcome. If its too bad there will be more changes.

Chocobo1 · Jun 23, 2009, 11:52 AM // 11:52

"PLZ BUFF SPIRITS, TIME SETTING THEM UP TAKES TOO LONG FOR EFFECTIVENESS"

*Anet does something right*

"OMG NERF PLZ SPIRITS TOO STRONG OMG"

Come on, think about what you are talking about. If spirits are really your biggest problem, then you might wanna rethink your build.

Beren985 · Jun 23, 2009, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by tasha_darke

Daze, Arcane Conundrum, Frustration, Migraine say hi. That 0.375 "impossible" spell becomes a 0.5 or 0.75 cast and quite easily interrupted.

Binding rituals are not Spells, non of this would work. Only hard interrupts such as CoP, CoF or ranger interrupts would work but again, you can not hit that .375 either.

I see Boneyard Spleeneater point myself, being mainly a mesmer user. But in the end, all this rant means is that interrupting is NOT a viable way to deal with spirit spammers. Fortunately in this game there are always some other means at hand, mesmers we have Unnatural (which I'm not a big fan of) and Spiritual Pain, which in this cases you can use ~5 times to deal ~375 armor ignoring damage to each of the opposing foes, using only one spell. Add Lyssa's Aura and some H/H, and I don't see where should the problem be.

Adapt or die.

jray14 · Jun 23, 2009, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

Discordway nerf...?

Get real man.

Signet of Binding
Consume Soul
Gaze of Fury
Unnatural Signet

Probably other skills as well. Don't be so stuck in a box.

Yes, it's a Discordway nerf in the sense that a Discordway team now takes significantly longer to clear areas with NPC Rits. Those 4 skills you mentioned are Communing, Spawning Power, Channeling Magic, and Domination Magic---attributes that aren't used in a Discordway team. So you'd have to compromise something else to fit those in.

Of course there's a counter to anything in the game. But there are only 2 profs and 200 attribute points per char. If an optimized team suddenly has to counter something new, there's gonna be a dip in efficiency. I.e., nerf.

If anyone can come up with a 1-player + 3-hero + 4-hench build that vanquishes areas with Rits as fast as I could before this update, I'd love to see it! Translation for the cynical: "ZOMG vanquishes so freakin long now11!!!11"

Zahr Dalsk · Jun 23, 2009, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

"PLZ BUFF SPIRITS, TIME SETTING THEM UP TAKES TOO LONG FOR EFFECTIVENESS"
*Anet does something right*
"OMG NERF PLZ SPIRITS TOO STRONG OMG"

Actually, it goes like this:

"PLEASE BUFF SPIRITS, TIME SETTING THEM UP TAKES TOO LONG FOR EFFECTIVENESS"
*Anet does something right*
"THANKS ARENANET THIS IS AWESOME"
*sound of non-rits whining because our class finally got a buff*

Legion Magnus · Jun 24, 2009, 02:04 AM // 02:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera

I was thinking of that solo quest in EoTN where you have to kill a griffon...that must suck in HM now.

I'll check it out right now

^^^ Still fighting Glacial Griffon in HM (sorry, couldn't resist)

Black Metal · Jun 24, 2009, 02:42 AM // 02:42

I ran across something today that seemed a bit imba. Any Skree goup with 3+ paragons is brutal, with the new 'We Shall Return' becoming a party-wide rez. And that was just in NM...........

YunSooJin · Jun 24, 2009, 02:54 AM // 02:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boneyard Spleeneater

Hmm, interesting discussion.

To respond to some general points, I am not saying that HM is too hard, I am saying it is impossible. By impossible I don't mean it can't be played, I mean certain things can't be done. If any of you out there are capable of interrupting a .375 second spell after they have started casting, then you are either uber-men, or cheaters. At some point, things cease to be challenging, and become boring (Rrangars comes to mind).

My thought was simply that Mesmers (which I often play, since it was my first toon) are supposed to be interrupter and hexers. In HM, they became CoP spikers, with the occasional interrupt available for long casting spells (Eles, Necros, and some Rit spells). Well now, Spirits will pop up and do whatever they do. Yes, I can always equip unnatural signet, but the point is that in buffing the rit, (and nerfing CoP), the Mes has essentially been sent to the ghetto of really effective AP caller.

I don't imagine that this update will ruin my play much, other than the fact that I only got a couple of weekends with my cool Keg farm before they nerfed it. My point in starting this was simply that in appealing to the people who wanted stronger rits, they radically changed a whole group of skills. This will have more radical consequences than they may have expected.

The reason why mesmers (and rangers too, incidentally) feel lost and ignored a lot of times in PvE, is due to the fact that Guild Wars designed them with PvP in mind. Mesmers or the mesmer secondary can dominate in PvP simply because they are strong caster and monk shutdown, and can make or break a team. This is because PvP is sensitive to disruption.

Although PvE in it of itself is somewhat sensitive to disruption, by and large, PvE mostly respects brute force. This brute force is best exemplified by massive spellcaster damage (ie fire elementalists) or overpowered mechanics that take advantage of the relative stupidity of the AI (minion masters -> bombers). Instead of making the game harder by making the enemies smarter, ANET decided to make the game harder by making the monsters stronger by brute force - higher levels, faster attack/move, faster cast times. Due to this, mesmers will always feel a little weaker or less effective - against the comparative monstrousity that is hard mode or harder areas, would you bring a small surgical knife or just a really large gun?

Arkantos · Jun 24, 2009, 04:16 AM // 04:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Metal

I ran across something today that seemed a bit imba. Any Skree goup with 3+ paragons is brutal, with the new 'We Shall Return' becoming a party-wide rez. And that was just in NM...........

Can't wait for people to start whining about it.

Funny fact: Some people who run overpowered builds have no problem with it, but when they face enemies with powerful builds they hate it.

Black Metal · Jun 24, 2009, 04:27 AM // 04:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Can't wait for people to start whining about it.

Funny fact: Some people who run overpowered builds have no problem with it, but when they face enemies with powerful builds they hate it.

that's real cute there, but i wasn't complaining, just point it out. And since it was totally unexpected, I wasn't prepared for it. That's the long and the short about it. Don't appreciate the attitude.

YunSooJin · Jun 24, 2009, 04:34 AM // 04:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Metal

that's real cute there, but i wasn't complaining, just point it out. And since it was totally unexpected, I wasn't prepared for it. That's the long and the short about it. Don't appreciate the attitude.

someone is EXTRA SENSITIVE, try johnson and johnson's baby powder

Jinkies · Jun 24, 2009, 06:49 AM // 06:49

PvE Ritualist bosses have always been challenging to unprepared teams, though it was never their weapon spells or spirits that were the issue.

It was skills like Spirit Rift that did 800 damage that got us.

The real problem will be in the desolation, ffs Signet of Return, We Shall Return, Junundu will actually have to work to kill foes.

Hyper.nl · Jun 24, 2009, 07:42 AM // 07:42

Searing Flames > Spirits

OMG the spirits are ON FIRE!

Kendel · Jun 24, 2009, 12:55 PM // 12:55

We Shall Return is a bigger issue than this... the only real problem is that the spirits take bleeding ages to kill without stuff like Unnatural or specific anti-spirit skills. But We Shall Return can be a pita pita.

I realised a few days ago that Skree mobs have the damn skill. I never even saw them use We Shall Return before and suddenly, up ressurects the entire sodding mob! Its not that much of a problem really until you get a couple of them in a mob with a Griffon, then it just depends if you can deal enough damage/disruption to kill the Singers.